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GTR range in Waukegan
02-08-2015, 05:36 PM,
#21
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#21
They are a gun range, they help teach a ton if people about guns. How can they be anti second? They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed.
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02-08-2015, 05:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-08-2015, 05:40 PM by ssphoto.)
#22
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#22
(02-08-2015, 05:23 PM)Freedoms1791 Wrote: Now I remember it was about a year ago when I look in to Bristol they are also Anti 2A, posted against carrying. How does a place that promotes gun use then post against carrying? That was the big one for me I don't spend my money anywhere they post.

Yeah, I seem to recall some weird postings around the place. Compared to other places I've been there seems to be a wierd vibe there. I still can't place it. I don't recall any anti-2A stuff there, but the whole attitude of the staff seems indifferent, aloof perhaps. They are helpful when asked, but still seems like they expect to get a bunch of rif-raff there and treat everyone with a distant regard. I won't be renewing my membership this year.
(02-08-2015, 05:23 PM)Freedoms1791 Wrote: Now I remember it was about a year ago when I look in to Bristol they are also Anti 2A, posted against carrying. How does a place that promotes gun use then post against carrying? That was the big one for me I don't spend my money anywhere they post.
Yeah, I seem to recall some weird postings around the place. Compared to other places I've been there seems to be a wierd vibe there. I still can't place it. I don't recall any anti-2A stuff there, but the whole attitude of the staff seems indifferent, aloof perhaps. They are helpful when asked, but still seems like they expect to get a bunch of rif-raff there and treat everyone with a distant regard. I won't be renewing my membership this year.
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02-08-2015, 05:40 PM,
#23
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#23
Also, they have valet parking! I was quite surprised!
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02-08-2015, 05:45 PM,
#24
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#24
(02-08-2015, 05:36 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: They are a gun range, they help teach a ton if people about guns. How can they be anti second? They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed.
What about the bag of guns I walk in with?
(02-08-2015, 05:36 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: They are a gun range, they help teach a ton if people about guns. How can they be anti second? They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed.What about the bag of guns I walk in with?
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02-08-2015, 05:49 PM,
#25
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#25
As long as they are in their case until you are at your station. And unloaded during a cease fire per the rules
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02-08-2015, 06:02 PM,
#26
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#26
(02-08-2015, 05:49 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: As long as they are in their case until you are at your station. And unloaded during a cease fire per the rules
What does that have to do with me having a holster gun on. Here are some of the reviews
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n...f82e02d3,1 I think by supporting a place like that just gives the anti's more ammo to say that even a gun range see it as a bad thing carrying. No thanks I'm not drinking that Kool-Aid.
(02-08-2015, 05:49 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: As long as they are in their case until you are at your station. And unloaded during a cease fire per the rulesWhat does that have to do with me having a holster gun on. Here are some of the reviews
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n...f82e02d3,1 I think by supporting a place like that just gives the anti's more ammo to say that even a gun range see it as a bad thing carrying. No thanks I'm not drinking that Kool-Aid.
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02-08-2015, 06:23 PM,
#27
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#27
It's not a cased gun, and it's not unloaded during a cease fire that's why. So supporting a gun range that introduces a ton of people to shooting. Has RO that will teach people. Host NRA matches, have gun shows. And has shooting events and raffles ARs off to support veterans group is some how not supporting the 2nd. Just because they don't slavishly commit to cc. There is more to the shooting world than CC. And I think our issue is not ranges who don't allow cc. But purist who will turn on allies over the 5% they disagree over.
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02-08-2015, 08:02 PM,
#28
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#28
"They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed."

If that's what they think then they are calling us idiots. They don't trust us to CC safely. All CC weapons are holstered. A loaded firearm is never unholstered unless intended to use and that use is for self-defense. They are saying we don't know this and they don't trust our CC training.

Bottom line is a no CC sign on a gun range is weird, and part of the weird vibe.

If that's what they think then they are calling us idiots. They don't trust us to CC safely. All CC weapons are holstered. A loaded firearm is never unholstered unless intended to use and that use is for self-defense. They are saying we don't know this and they don't trust our CC training.

Bottom line is a no CC sign on a gun range is weird, and part of the weird vibe.
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02-08-2015, 08:04 PM,
#29
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#29
(02-08-2015, 08:02 PM)Dutz Wrote: "They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed."

If that's what they think then they are calling us idiots. They don't trust us to CC safely. All CC weapons are holstered. A loaded firearm is never unholstered unless intended to use and that use is for self-defense. They are saying we don't know this and they don't trust our CC training.

Bottom line is a no CC sign on a gun range is weird, and part of the weird vibe.
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(02-08-2015, 08:02 PM)Dutz Wrote: "They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed."

If that's what they think then they are calling us idiots. They don't trust us to CC safely. All CC weapons are holstered. A loaded firearm is never unholstered unless intended to use and that use is for self-defense. They are saying we don't know this and they don't trust our CC training.

Bottom line is a no CC sign on a gun range is weird, and part of the weird vibe.Thumbup
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02-08-2015, 08:39 PM,
#30
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#30
(02-08-2015, 08:02 PM)Dutz Wrote: "They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed."

If that's what they think then they are calling us idiots. They don't trust us to CC safely. All CC weapons are holstered. A loaded firearm is never unholstered unless intended to use and that use is for self-defense. They are saying we don't know this and they don't trust our CC training.

Bottom line is a no CC sign on a gun range is weird, and part of the weird vibe.

Seriously? So some one not allowing cc, is some sort of affront? I see enough people doing enough stupid things with uncased guns as is. So when people are down range it makes sense to have a safe line. If some one gets shot the club is liable. But forget all of that. And we just had a few instances of cc holders making poor decisions and people got shot. If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied . But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line. Guns are a f ing serious matter. And you can't unfire a bullet. You can carry the gun in a case, you can even shoot it. But during a shooting break it needs to be unloaded. It's not anti 2nd A it's understanding the gravity of the situation and acting accordingly. People down range is a big deal. I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.
(02-08-2015, 08:02 PM)Dutz Wrote: "They can't gaurntee a clear line when it comes to changing targets if there is cc allowed. That is why it's not allowed."

If that's what they think then they are calling us idiots. They don't trust us to CC safely. All CC weapons are holstered. A loaded firearm is never unholstered unless intended to use and that use is for self-defense. They are saying we don't know this and they don't trust our CC training.

Bottom line is a no CC sign on a gun range is weird, and part of the weird vibe.
Seriously? So some one not allowing cc, is some sort of affront? I see enough people doing enough stupid things with uncased guns as is. So when people are down range it makes sense to have a safe line. If some one gets shot the club is liable. But forget all of that. And we just had a few instances of cc holders making poor decisions and people got shot. If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied . But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line. Guns are a f ing serious matter. And you can't unfire a bullet. You can carry the gun in a case, you can even shoot it. But during a shooting break it needs to be unloaded. It's not anti 2nd A it's understanding the gravity of the situation and acting accordingly. People down range is a big deal. I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.
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02-08-2015, 09:16 PM,
#31
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#31
I think what you are having trouble with is knowing the difference between the 2A and CC for me this is about Bristol not respecting my 2A right and If you and I and the members of Bristol lose are 2A right then you lose the range your guns and it won't end there like I said I'm not drinking it. (I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.) watch out for what you wish for. If this wears off we all just lost more than are guns. and (But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.) it sounds good but again I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid
this sound like something obama saving the children lines.
this sound like something obama saving the children lines.
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02-08-2015, 09:40 PM,
#32
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#32
Yea cause basic gun safety is an Obama talking point. And are the 4 rules if gun safety as well?You are the one who is more it less saying if you can't cc, than the facility isn't supporting the SA. Which is ridiculous, seriously they have done more for it. Than you and I ever will. The reason why I can't wait for the cc fad to end. Is that the gun rights movement has been okay with out it. And the vocal minority acts as a wedge. If you are not 100% with us you are a kool aid drinker. Real great way to keep a united front. But being able to carry every where everytime is more important.If you think a private facility not allowing cc, is the first step of losing all gun rites . Than how did we have the same rights before cc was allowed? If you thinks it's due to people spending a weekend taking a class and going to shoot paper every few weeks, I disagree. It's the people and faculties like Bristol that have been at it for years introducing new shooters who vote and be polically active. But they arnt 100 pure so eff them am I right?
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02-08-2015, 10:45 PM,
#33
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#33
(02-08-2015, 09:40 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: Than how did we have the same rights before cc was allowed? If you thinks it's due to people spending a weekend taking a class and going to shoot paper every few weeks, I disagree. It's the people and faculties like Bristol that have been at it for years introducing new shooters who vote and be polically active. But they arnt 100 pure so eff them am I right?

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(02-08-2015, 09:40 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: Than how did we have the same rights before cc was allowed? If you thinks it's due to people spending a weekend taking a class and going to shoot paper every few weeks, I disagree. It's the people and faculties like Bristol that have been at it for years introducing new shooters who vote and be polically active. But they arnt 100 pure so eff them am I right?
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02-08-2015, 11:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-08-2015, 11:41 PM by Dutz.)
#34
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(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: Seriously?

Quite seriously.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

I would expect the managers of a range would know enough about cc to know that is the implication. Pretty sad.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.

Having concealed carriers on a line does not effect the clearness of the line in any way, shape, or form UNLESS the cc is an idiot. As long as the carrier is not an idiot, the presence of the carrier or his/her firearm is not relevant to anything going on no matter where that is. It is the same as if the firearm wasn't even there.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.

After decades of fighting to get that in Illinois it is not going away as long as I am alive. Concealed carrying is a way of life, it is my way of life, and I aim to keep it. (who said that Smile).
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: Seriously?
Quite seriously.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

I would expect the managers of a range would know enough about cc to know that is the implication. Pretty sad.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.

Having concealed carriers on a line does not effect the clearness of the line in any way, shape, or form UNLESS the cc is an idiot. As long as the carrier is not an idiot, the presence of the carrier or his/her firearm is not relevant to anything going on no matter where that is. It is the same as if the firearm wasn't even there.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.

After decades of fighting to get that in Illinois it is not going away as long as I am alive. Concealed carrying is a way of life, it is my way of life, and I aim to keep it. (who said that Smile).
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02-08-2015, 11:46 PM,
#35
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#35
(02-08-2015, 11:39 PM)Dutz Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: Seriously?

Quite seriously.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

I would expect the managers of a range would know enough about cc to know that is the implication. Pretty sad.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.

Having concealed carriers on a line does not effect the clearness of the line in any way, shape, or form UNLESS the cc is an idiot. As long as the carrier is not an idiot, the presence of the carrier or his/her firearm is not relevant to anything going on no matter where that is. It is the same as if the firearm wasn't even there.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.

After decades of fighting to get that in Illinois it is not going away as long as I am alive. Concealed carrying is a way of life, it is my way of life, and I aim to keep it. (who said that Smile).
HomerThumbup
(02-08-2015, 11:39 PM)Dutz Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: Seriously?

Quite seriously.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

I would expect the managers of a range would know enough about cc to know that is the implication. Pretty sad.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.

Having concealed carriers on a line does not effect the clearness of the line in any way, shape, or form UNLESS the cc is an idiot. As long as the carrier is not an idiot, the presence of the carrier or his/her firearm is not relevant to anything going on no matter where that is. It is the same as if the firearm wasn't even there.

(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.

After decades of fighting to get that in Illinois it is not going away as long as I am alive. Concealed carrying is a way of life, it is my way of life, and I aim to keep it. (who said that Smile).HomerThumbup
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02-08-2015, 11:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-09-2015, 12:00 AM by Dutz.)
#36
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#36
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

When you say I cannot carry in your place of business and you claim it is a safety issue that CANNOT be interpreted any other way.

You are saying I am unsafe. You are saying I am an idiot.

I will not give you my money. Period. It has nothing to do with CC, it is the insult you directed at me. You made this personal, extremely personal.
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .
When you say I cannot carry in your place of business and you claim it is a safety issue that CANNOT be interpreted any other way.

You are saying I am unsafe. You are saying I am an idiot.

I will not give you my money. Period. It has nothing to do with CC, it is the insult you directed at me. You made this personal, extremely personal.
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02-09-2015, 12:50 AM,
#37
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#37
(02-08-2015, 11:59 PM)Dutz Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

When you say I cannot carry in your place of business and you claim it is a safety issue that CANNOT be interpreted any other way.

You are saying I am unsafe. You are saying I am an idiot.

I will not give you my money. Period. It has nothing to do with CC, it is the insult you directed at me. You made this personal, extremely personal.

I'm not sure I would take it as personally as you do. Bristol, based on its experience, has decided that they are not willing to risk an issue with the lowest common denominator, an idiot/crazy person. Do they believe you specifically are an idiot? No, they just think there is one out there somewhere who is going to show up one day. Probably the same guy that shot the slug at the shotgun range.
(02-08-2015, 11:59 PM)Dutz Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 08:39 PM)fromtheplaines Wrote: If you really want to think people are calling you an idiot for not allowing you to cc, that's on you. Since that is neither written nor implied .

When you say I cannot carry in your place of business and you claim it is a safety issue that CANNOT be interpreted any other way.

You are saying I am unsafe. You are saying I am an idiot.

I will not give you my money. Period. It has nothing to do with CC, it is the insult you directed at me. You made this personal, extremely personal.
I'm not sure I would take it as personally as you do. Bristol, based on its experience, has decided that they are not willing to risk an issue with the lowest common denominator, an idiot/crazy person. Do they believe you specifically are an idiot? No, they just think there is one out there somewhere who is going to show up one day. Probably the same guy that shot the slug at the shotgun range.
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02-09-2015, 12:54 AM,
#38
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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(02-08-2015, 09:16 PM)Freedoms1791 Wrote: I think what you are having trouble with is knowing the difference between the 2A and CC for me this is about Bristol not respecting my 2A right and If you and I and the members of Bristol lose are 2A right then you lose the range your guns and it won't end there like I said I'm not drinking it. (I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.) watch out for what you wish for. If this wears off we all just lost more than are guns. and (But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.) it sounds good but again I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid
this sound like something obama saving the children lines.

In a previous discussion about CCW and ranges the owner of Red Dot Arms has stated the following:

Quote:RE: CCW and Basspro Policy (Gurnee)
I agree, class room setting is not a place for loaded guns.

I do understand the one round rule. Being open to the public, they never know the experience of the shooter. The incident with the 9 year old girl and the Uzi would have never happened if they had a one round rule.

Hence the reason, if RDA ever gets big ranges, we will try to have some type of access card to get you to the sections where you can do more. Once you've proven yourself, you can have more than one round.

Mike doesn't think loaded guns should be in a classroom environment. Is Mike anti-2A too?
(02-08-2015, 09:16 PM)Freedoms1791 Wrote: I think what you are having trouble with is knowing the difference between the 2A and CC for me this is about Bristol not respecting my 2A right and If you and I and the members of Bristol lose are 2A right then you lose the range your guns and it won't end there like I said I'm not drinking it. (I can't wait till the whole cc fad wears off.) watch out for what you wish for. If this wears off we all just lost more than are guns. and (But when I am walking down range I want to know its a clear line.) it sounds good but again I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid
this sound like something obama saving the children lines.
In a previous discussion about CCW and ranges the owner of Red Dot Arms has stated the following:

Quote:RE: CCW and Basspro Policy (Gurnee)
I agree, class room setting is not a place for loaded guns.

I do understand the one round rule. Being open to the public, they never know the experience of the shooter. The incident with the 9 year old girl and the Uzi would have never happened if they had a one round rule.

Hence the reason, if RDA ever gets big ranges, we will try to have some type of access card to get you to the sections where you can do more. Once you've proven yourself, you can have more than one round.

Mike doesn't think loaded guns should be in a classroom environment. Is Mike anti-2A too?
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02-09-2015, 07:09 AM,
#39
RE: GTR range in Waukegan
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#39
Beginner's class environment classroom training for cc is not a place for loaded guns. that's like telling your kid to drive his self to driving school. Advance class and it's posted or one round rule I'll spend my money else ware. I don't care what the business is or how long I've been going there or the first time no guns no money I don't care if a business post that's total up to them and were I spend my money is up to me. As far as Bristol I go with the online reviews the place is run by clicky ole timers "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig," what a joke.
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02-09-2015, 07:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-09-2015, 07:52 AM by Dutz.)
#40
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#40
(02-09-2015, 12:54 AM)AcilletaM Wrote: Mike doesn't think loaded guns should be in a classroom environment. Is Mike anti-2A too?

We were not talking about classrooms.

In a classroom setting your firearms are not holstered. This is the reason.

A LOADED FIREARM DOES NOT LEAVE THE HOLSTER UNLESS YOU ARE SHOOTING IT.

In my home my firearms are unloaded unless I am carrying in the house prepared for protection. In that case IT IS HOLSTERED.

I load my mags before my trip to the range, I do not put a mag in a firearm which is not holstered.

When my instructor is showing me something with a firearm, it is not holstered. When he asks to inspect my firearm, it is not holstered. When I am following his instructions by viewing my firearm, it is not holstered.

When it is not holstered, it is not loaded.

There are 10,000 ranges out there that not only allow CC but encourage it. There are at least 100 people who walk through those ranges each week with a concealed firearm. That is 1 million encounters per week and 50 million per year. There are so far 0 incidents as a result.

When your reason for a policy is to solve a problem that does not exist you are either dishonest about the reason or delusional about your management skills.

Even Bass Pro which pretty much chains up your firearm when walking to the range understands and respect the CC permit.
(02-09-2015, 12:54 AM)AcilletaM Wrote: Mike doesn't think loaded guns should be in a classroom environment. Is Mike anti-2A too?
We were not talking about classrooms.

In a classroom setting your firearms are not holstered. This is the reason.

A LOADED FIREARM DOES NOT LEAVE THE HOLSTER UNLESS YOU ARE SHOOTING IT.

In my home my firearms are unloaded unless I am carrying in the house prepared for protection. In that case IT IS HOLSTERED.

I load my mags before my trip to the range, I do not put a mag in a firearm which is not holstered.

When my instructor is showing me something with a firearm, it is not holstered. When he asks to inspect my firearm, it is not holstered. When I am following his instructions by viewing my firearm, it is not holstered.

When it is not holstered, it is not loaded.

There are 10,000 ranges out there that not only allow CC but encourage it. There are at least 100 people who walk through those ranges each week with a concealed firearm. That is 1 million encounters per week and 50 million per year. There are so far 0 incidents as a result.

When your reason for a policy is to solve a problem that does not exist you are either dishonest about the reason or delusional about your management skills.

Even Bass Pro which pretty much chains up your firearm when walking to the range understands and respect the CC permit.
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